Yesterday, I asked this question on Facebook:
I got a pretty decent response. Of course, there are a lot of factors that go in to what we pay for a working or auditing spot in a seminar; how much the seminar presenter is charging, how much it costs to get them to the seminar site, the rental fees for the arena or building where the seminar is being held. Those are just the basics. Then there are other costs; assuming that the organizer has done a lot of legwork to put the whole thing together, it’s reasonable that they should not have to pay $$ for the seminar themselves, as they’ve already paid in other ways.
The rest, in my mind, gets less clear. Well, not really, I’m pretty sure how I feel about it, but I can’t really take a firm stance, since in some cases, I’m not entirely aware of the costs to bring me in. But, when I heard last night that a local facility is charging nearly $400 for a working spot in a two day seminar, my own reaction made me realize I should be more aware of the costs all around.
Teaching, for me, is an enjoyable activity. It’s a mental exercise, not always easy, but very rewarding. Maybe it’s my background as a public educator, maybe it’s just me, but I really have a hard time with the idea of education as a business. I left my job as director of a pretty neat physical facility partially because I couldn’t stand the constant pressure to bring in more and more and more income from an activity that is in my mind about quality, not quantity. An activity that, by its very nature, you decrease the quality of by increasing the load or quantity of instruction asked of an educator, and there’s the rub. Teaching is an activity and profession that isn’t, by its nature, very scalable.
There are ways to make more of your time as an instructor or coach. If you’ve got good material that will stand the test of time, you can put it in print, or on a DVD, or some other format that allows you to distribute your material in a more asynchronous format (meaning, you and the learner don’t engage at the same time). But even so, will you be available to answer questions from the learner as they arise? There are only so many questions one can answer in a day.
Online classes are another type of either synchronous or asynchronous learning that allow the educator to give more of themselves, and also allows for broader access to the educator by the learners. But at the end of the day, the educator still lives by the same 24-hour clock as the rest of the world, and time is a limiting factor. At a certain point, if the educator doesn’t limit access to themselves, the quality of the education they provide will go down.
So, back to my question of whether or not $400 for a two day working spot in a dog agility seminar is high. It’s a subjective question and the responses were subjective. For some, $400 is not too high; their geographical location, local or regional economy, personal finances, competitive stage and history, and a host of other factors lead to an answer of NO. For others, the answer is YES. Here are some of the things I’d take in to account when deciding how to spend my money at a seminar:
- Does the presenter have any history or credentials as an educator?
There’s a lot more to it than just standing in front of a group of people and talking. Some people are naturally talented educators, so this is not a deal breaker for me. Also, there are some seminar presenters out there who have been teaching a LOT longer than me, and since they’re still at it, I think it’s safe to assume they’re good at what they’re doing. - How long has the seminar presenter been doing what they’re doing?
Again, this isn’t a deal breaker for me, but I think it’s important to recognize that somebody who has been doing agility for ten or more years has been around long enough to get a better idea of the big picture with respect to the change and growth occurring in the sport than somebody who has only been around for a short time. I’m not discounting new information, and you shouldn’t either – there could be somebody out there who has been in the sport for only a year or so who is a very talented handler and instructor, but I’d maintain a healthy skepticism about whether or not what they’re offering will stand up to the test of time. - How many different canine personalities has this presenter worked with successfully?
Somebody who has worked successfully with dogs with a lot of innate drive as well as dogs that need more coaching and coaxing is going to spark my interest more than somebody who has one talented dog. Take my dogs, for example. Fly and Solar, Solar in particular, are or were AMAZING agility dogs. Solar does well often enough at big events that the both of us get noticed. But really, it’s Jester and Juno who are making me a better trainer and handler, one who can help a broader audience. Jester has done his fair share of winning, but he’s not quite as flashy or spectacular, so he doesn’t get noticed quite as much. Juno is currently following along somewhat in his tracks more than Solar’s. If I hear that a seminar presenter has placed a dog because the dog wasn’t a good agility dog, you’d better believe that’s a deal breaker for me. - Does the seminar presenter focus on the group or the individual?
In a group setting, I’d expect that the seminar presenter tries to present information that’s applicable to the whole group. I’d expect that they tried to address the group even while I’m out there with my dog. I’d expect also that they will try to give me feedback specific to my dog and to me, but that they’d always be trying to show the broader applications of my specific instruction to the group. I’d also expect that if a team is having an issue that takes up more than the average amount of time and it’s not something applicable to the group, it wouldn’t be addressed as thoroughly as somebody with an issue that is applicable to the group. - How much $ am I paying per minute of actual instruction applicable to me? Could I get the same information in another way?
Whether I’m on the floor with my dog or not, how many minutes of actual instruction applicable to me do I expect to get? This question, unfortunately, is often better answered in hindsight, and if you’re less experienced yourself, you may not know enough about the seminar presenter and his/her similarities to your own style to know whether or not you’ll get a lot of information out of it. But, if the same presenter IS available for private lessons, or online instruction, it may be that there are other ways to get quality instruction from that instructor, at a lower $/minute cost.
Personally, as a seminar presenter, I’d prefer as much as possible to not have to force seminar hosts or potential participants to be faced with the choice of deciding if they’re charging or paying too much. But, that’s a pretty idealistic view. Still, I know I’m happier sleeping on somebody’s couch if I know I’m saving everybody a few bucks; it works out in the long run for everybody.
Because I just can’t help myself, I’m making this available as a podcast as well 
Bernny Sánchez
La reflexión personal que hoy has hecho es muy importante y quisiera reflexionar también contigo desde estas dos dimensiones-, la primera tiene que ver con el costo beneficio de un seminario y es un pensamiento que tiene una persona al pagar por un lugar en un seminario, y la segunda es las formas de trabajo de un ponente ante un grupo de asistentes con expectativas diferentes y capacidades también distintas.
Sobre la primera dimensión a la que hago referencia puedo decir que el respaldo y éxito de un ponente son razones muy poderosas para saber si el costo es adecuado, yo siempre me inclino por asistir a seminarios que me dejará un aprendizaje significativo y por supuesto que tenga el nivel que me corresponde de otro modo estaría yo haciendo turismo académico y hacer perder el tiempo al ponente y asistentes.
La enseñanza aprendizaje a través del tiempo ha cambiado y lo cual agradezco, los ponentes han mejorado sus estrategias de acompañamiento y los alumnos han roto el paradigma de callar y reproducir por orden, indicación o imitación, esto nos permite observar en las pruebas de agility diferentes estilos y algunos muy efectivos; siempre espero no ver clones en lo que respecta a manejo y enseñanza del agility.
Sobre la segunda dimensión a la que refiero, me permite reflexionar sobre lo que ocurre en mi campo de entrenamiento donde lo grupal y lo individual reciben un porcentaje de atención según el nivel y potencial de los alumnos o manejadores, antes de la clase rompo mi cabeza buscando elementos didácticos y frases que puedan ayudar a mi alumno, al perrito y a mí como entrenador en la solución de algún reto, pero en el momento pedagógico entran en juego innumerables pensamientos en tres mentes –perro, manejador y entrenador- y las cuales debemos atender de la manera más efectiva, congruente y oportuna posible; la obtención de resultados exitosos a pesar de todo lo anterior es lo que hace a un ponente accesible en precio y credibilidad.
Oye… porque… qué tal en las clases? Como entrenadores no solo nos enfrentamos como a manejadores con habilidades cognitivas y físicas también están las emocionales como la motivación, empatía y el compartir de metas.
Personas con pensamientos como los tuyos que ponen la calidad por encima de la cantidad hacen del agility una oportunidad para el uso de nuestro tiempo con calidad y con más remuneración en la satisfacción y realización personal que en el bolsillo.
Te pido una disculpa por no escribir en ingles.
peeld
In English:
The reflection you have done today is very important and also would like to reflect with you from these two dimensions-the first has to do with the cost benefit of a seminary and is a thought that a person has to pay for a place in a seminar, and the second is the working methods of a speaker to a group of participants with different expectations and abilities are also different.
The first dimension to which I refer I can say that the support and success of a speaker are very powerful reasons to know if the cost is right, I was always inclined to attend seminars that I will leave a significant learning and of course we have the level falls to me otherwise I would be touring academic and waste your time to speaker and attendees.
The teaching and learning over time has changed and so thank you, the speakers have improved their accompanying strategies and students have broken the silence and play paradigm in order, instruction or imitation, this allows us to observe different agility tests styles and some very effective, always hope not to see clones with respect to handling and agility instruction.
The second dimension you mean, I can reflect on what happens in my training camp where they receive group and individual care as a percentage of the level and potential of students and managers, before I break my head class looking for educational items and phrases that can help my students, the dog and me as a coach in the resolution of a challenge, but at the time teaching many thoughts come into play in three minds, dog handler and trainer, and which we must address the most effective, consistent and timely manner, obtaining successful results in spite of all this is what makes a speaker affordable in price and credibility.
Hey … because … how about in class? As coaches we face not only as drivers with cognitive and physical skills there are also emotional and motivation, empathy and the sharing of goals.
People with thoughts like yours that put quality over quantity agility make an opportunity for the use of our time with quality and more pay satisfaction and personal fulfillment in your pocket.
I ask an apology for not writing in English.
(Probably not the best translation, Google Translate can only do so much)
Andrew
I regularly see $200 / day as the going rate for a “big name” (whatever that means) agility seminar. For someone that is going to teach me something and make me better, I find it completely reasonable, especially when compared with the other monetary outlays I make for the sport. Considering entry fees, gas and hotel (I don’t exactly stay in luxurious places, Motel 6 and I are very friendly), a two day seminar for $400 will cost me less than two out of town trials. Why would I NOT want to do it if it will positively impact my team?
peeld
I suppose when you put it that way, it IS reasonable – so what would you do to maximize the chances of being in a situation where you’d be taught something, rather than just….being there?
Andrew
Obviously there aren’t guarantees, but I try to be smart and stay involved in as much of the community as I can to be aware of who would benefit me and who wouldn’t. Most people who could get that price for a seminar are either going to be very visible in the community, be it with a direct web presence, filmed runs on youtube, with their publications, etc. Hopefully if you keep up with things you can get a feel for who will mesh with what you need and who won’t.
…and sometimes you hit some bad ones that you waste some money on. It’s unfortunate when it happens, but that’s when you suck it up.
I’ll also admit that I’m relatively “fortunate” to be able to spend a fair amount of money on my dopey dog hobby, and I’m willing to acknowledge that I may not be able to see the forest through the trees on this one.
Julie Dennis
You know, I can probably be accused of just “being there” from time to time since part of the sport for me is about the social aspect. But even in those cases if I walk away with a few “ah-ha” moments from a seminar then its money well spent for me. Personally I dont have a problem paying $400.00 for a two day seminar, but if its in a lousy facility with bad equipment, no food or snacks and the seminar presenter is sleeping on the couch, then I might wonder where the money is going. But also its relative IMO, while $400 may not be an issue for me, it might be for others even if its a state of the art facility with a catered lunch and the presenter has a jacuzzi suite at a 5 star hotel. If you dont have the money to spend at all for a seminar, then it doesn’t matter how much it costs.
For me it comes down to the ability of the educator to connect at some level with the student and their dog, no matter what their weak areas might be. Because at the end of the day, the real reason someone pays for a working spot IMO is to get some feedback about THEM and THEIR dog as a team (even if working out their weak points might benefit the group as a whole). So while the seminar presenter having experience with lots of different dog types is good, I think what the person plugging down the money for the working spot wants to know is if the presenter has experience working with THEIR type of dog’s personality, or THEIR issue. There are some seminar presenters who will only work with certain types of dogs. Anyone else in a working spot gets “thats nice….next dog” after every run. I’ve personally experienced this. That kind of seminar presenter is not worth 10 cents in my opinion no matter how big a name or how many championships they have won, and even if the facility and the equipment are gold plated and masseurs are standing by to rub you down after every run. Its just a waste of time. On the other hand, someone who honestly cares about the quality of their instruction and what people take away from their seminars, well that person is worth their weight in gold. You are clearly the latter.
peeld
Well, gee, thanks, I’m fatter, I mean, flattered
Julie Dennis
LOL
Susan Mann
Its tough, trying to figure out the best bang for your agility buck. Sometimes going to a seminar means not going to a trial. Sometimes, that’s the best choice, especially if you have a particular issue that keeps cropping up, and the seminar presenter is good with that issue. OTOH, sometimes you just need to get some mileage trialing. Right now, I’m trying to figure out what the best option is for me to attend your seminar(s) in the Carolinas. I do think $195 for one day is a bit excessive. It wasn’t too long ago that $100 a day was considered about average, and some were cheaper than that. Although my dog is in Masters and has some good skills, I’m considering doing the half day Open session instead- there are often fewer people at Open, so likely to get more personalized attention, and a half day is often plenty. I did both a full day Masters and a half day Open with Ann Braue, and loved both (great seminar presenter, with good balance of both individual and group teaching, and I got to do both fairly cheaply due to someone else’s dog being injured) and got as much from the half day session as I did from the Masters session.
I love doing private lessons, or even better, longer semi-privates. But a $40 per hour ring rental can put this out of my price range. I’m not wealthy, and would love to do everything, but choices are required!
I love the fact that you do the online teaching, and think that this is really going to take off. Sylvia Trkman and Linda Mecklenburg are doing those as well, and I’m sure others are also. My internet access was extremely poor for a while, then non-existent except sporadically, and I just got a new provider this week, and am hoping that even though I’m in the boonies, I’ll now be able to take better advantage of such programs now that my dog is starting to get back into agility after an injury.
When I do attend seminars or work with someone, I like to know as much as possible ahead of time, and be able to maximize what I learn from them by doing my homework ahead of time. That way I can get the finer nuances of whatever they’re teaching, rather than just the rough outline.
Daisy Peel
Yes, the online classes are I think a logical next step. Like anything, they can be done poorly or well; I’ve heard that there is at least one person out there charging for THEIR online instruction and then having others respond – a sort of ghost writing situation. But I expect that’s an exception rather than the norm. I think it’s actually a great way to set up coaching with an instructor ahead of time and then, when they DO come your way, you already have a relationship with them, so the in person instruction is more effective.